Qendra Sociale Komuna
Event: Discussion: Genocidal Colonialism and War in Gaza
This is a transcript of an online discussion held on 23rd of January 2024 with Jonathan Pollak, an anarchist from Yaffa. It was focused on the war in Gaza, and more specifically on how the war has been perceived in Israeli society and if there is any resistance to the latter. This discussion comes as a follow up on discussion held on 11th of November, organized by a group of independent activities in Termokiss, which highlighted experience from two Palestinians, one living in West Bank, and a refugee from Gaza (currently in Reykjavik). Hence, we would like to note that this discussion was done not to center the perspective and personhood of Israeli citizens, but rather to provide a wider understanding of the context and show that the situation cannot be reduced to a binary ethnic or religious conflict.
Komuna:
For others who don’t know, Jonathan is an activist for a long time…Maybe he should present himself, better then we can.
So today we are going to talk more about the war in Palestine and more about the Israeli side, as in how the war it is being perceived by the Israeli side . We have some questions, but maybe we can start with you and present yourself.
Jonathan,
Okay, so I’ll start by saying that I think the best way to handle this would be…I mean, I’ll give some background maybe to read your questions, but I think it would be more interesting if it’s a conversation rather
than me just talking at the screen. So yeah, I’m happy to also hear what people are interested in and we can go along through that.
About myself: I’ve lived in Jaffa most of my life. Jaffa is the part of Palestine that was occupied by Israel in 1948. It used to be a Palestinian city until 1948, until the Nakba, and was then largely depopulated and occupied by Israel. And it is now mixed, roughly half-half Jewish and Palestinian.
I’ve been involved in the Palestinian struggle for most of my life, but more intensely for the past 20 years, since the beginning of the Second Intifada. I’ve been to prison several times, I’ve been injured several times, mostly been involved in Palestinian demonstrations in the West Bank against Israeli occupation.
That’s pretty much about me.
I got involved in anarchism in my early teens, back around 12, through the animal rights movement.
Yeah, anyone have any more specific questions that I have to answer?
Komuna:
We can start talking about the situation now that is happening there with the war in Gaza and the whole context, although we have seen a lot of things from media ant TV, but from your perspective, how do you see it?
And especially with this article you said in crimethink, which you have described it as a war of a nuclear superpower commiting genocide…well u did give that interview just at the beginning of the Gaza war… as sort of David Vs Goliath war…
Jonathan:
Yeah, so I think we can now very safely talk about genocide. And I think there’s a problem with the word genocide, there’s one problem with it, and the single problem with it, in my opinion, is that it’s a distraction. I mean, probably not in the circle we’re at right now, but people say genocide and then other people would say no, but it’s not genocide because this and this and that and some legal something. And it becomes like a legal mockery of politics.
I think because, genocide, at its base is often viewed as this legal dispute, whether something is genocide or not, because it’s something in international law. I think this is being hijacked by legalism, by legal terms.
And I think what we need to do is actually look at what genocide means, not on the legal level, but what it actually means for ordinary people. When we say genocide, what do we mean by that politically? And to reclaim that and then to say, yes, what’s happening in Palestine, what’s happening in Gaza right now is genocide. Israel is decimating the Palestinian. So I think that’s what we need to concentrate on. And Israel is very good at spinning the situation and it has very good legal advice through its military ranks and every step that it takes it makes sure to go through legal advice.
So they bomb something and it goes through legal advice and they tell them, yeah, that’s okay, because that’s a military target and you have this military something here. So it’s okay to kill a hundred people to kill that military target. And it’s legal. And if you go case by case, Israel is very good at spinning that.
But what we need to look at is Israel had destroyed between 60 and 80% of the structure in the Galilee Strip. It is said that 95% of the population is affected by Israel’s bombing, roughly 1.5% of the population was killed by Israeli bombing and artillery. 1.5! If we imagine a thousand people, that’s 15 people that have been killed.Israel has told people to move away from the north of the Galilee Strip down to the south where there is a safe area. And it keeps bombing the safe area.
The New York Times, which cannot be suspected of being very left wing or anti-Israel, has published a report showing how Israel has bombed the southern strip, the part that’s supposed to be safe, has kept on bombing it with one-ton bomb, these are humongous bombs, Over 200 times.
So the vast majority of the population of the Galilee Strip is now concentrated in the south, in the area called the Rafah, which is the southern border of the Galilee Strip. And there is hunger there. There is thirst. There is no medication.
So what Israel is doing is basically concentrating Palestinians in the south of the Galilee Strip and killing them. Either killing them by bombs or killing them by withholding food, water, medicine, the basic tenets of life. The basic things that are required to sustain life.
And, you know, I’m no legal expert, but to me it’s clear that this is genocide. If you do everything within your power and you say we will not give them food, we will not give them water, and then you actually do that and you actually bomb and kill 1.5 percent of all people living in Gaza, the majority of them women and children. To me, that is genocide. And if that’s not genocide, we need new terminology that is a way that is divorced of the norms of international law that simply do not protect people.
Okay, so this is another part.
And, you know, being in Kosovo, I’m sure you’re much better acquainted with the history of the Balkan wars than I am. But the ICJ that’s today discussing the South African case for genocide, for Israeli genocide, the ICJ actually never found Serbia guilty of genocide. They only ruled that they didn’t prevent the militias from committing genocide. And I want to talk about that because it’s relevant to the public atmosphere in Israel.
After the 7th of October, the public discourse had been completely genocidal. You’d have posters flying over the highway saying zero residents in Gaza. There were open calls to erase the strip. Politicians including both Netanyahu and the Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Minister of Defense have made genocidal remarks. Netanyahu quoted, in a letter to soldiers, Netanyahu quoted some biblical phrase calling for the erasure of the Amalekites who were the biblical Jews, one of the biblical Jews’ enemies in the Torah. Government has clearly stated that they will hold Gaza under complete siege with no water, food or medicine going in. And then they executed it. So it goes from the very, very top echelons of politics to the last of civil society from right to left. And the media echoes it, politicians echo it.
And there are even official government plans that they’ve published calling for the removal of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip into the Sinai desert. An official Israeli government plan was published and Israel was trying to buy diplomatic support for that.
There is absolutely no resistance to the war in Israel, no opposition to the war inside Israeli society. The very insignificant little that there is is being suppressed and repressed by the state. Palestinians with Israeli citizenship have been arrested in mass arrests for posting Facebook posts saying things like, my heart is with the children of Gaza. Any support for Gaza or opposition to Israel’s war is seen as criminal.
In the West Bank, there have been thousands of arrests. Many of them, the majority of them are administrative detention. Administrative detention is Israel’s newspeak. It’s really euphemism for detention without indefinite detention, without trial, without any due process. People under administrative detention are not being told what they are arrested for, what are the evidence against them, what the evidence against them is, or for how long they’ll be held. They can be held for six months at a time, but that can be renewed indefinitely.
So I started talking about that, saying that Serbia was never tried. The ICJ never determined that Serbia committed genocide. But the court did determine that they didn’t stop genocide, they didn’t prevent genocide. Israeli public opinion is extremely genocidal at the moment. The public discourse is openly genocidal, and there is absolutely no measures being taken against such discourse, against incitement to genocide.
And it’s important to understand, and I’m not sure how well aware people are about that, but the Israeli army is not a professional army. It’s a conscription army. And at the moment, it is also very based on reserve, on ordinary civilians being called to do reserve service, and they’re being sent to Gaza to fight. Now, we see a lot of footage that soldiers themselves are taking, and you know, TikTok videos and Instagram videos of soldiers recording themselves saying that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza, that government should be killed, destroyed, removed. The prominent discourse within Israeli society is of seeing Gazans as animals.
I think that an important thing to keep in mind is that all this is happening in the context of colonialism, of Israel being a colonial power, a colonial entity that rules over Palestinian and subjugates them to Israeli power.
Komuna:
Can you perhaps give us more insight on the history, because you mentioned colonialism, maybe about the history of colonialism of Israel when it comes to Palestine. And a lot of people, you know, when try to criticize the colonialism of Zionism, people would call them out as anti-semitist. Maybe just give us the context on how the Israeli society and the government usually have argued or how they justified their colonialism.
Jonathan:
Okay, so the funding myth of Zionism is, long before they both, is a country without a people for a people without a country. And the country without the people is Palestine, and the people without the country is the Jewish people. Now, that is classic colonial thinking because, of course, there were people in Palestine. There were people living here long before Zionism.
The thing is, they weren’t white, they weren’t European, so they weren’t perceived as people. And so that’s the governing notion on the idea of Zionism. The idea was to bring a European nation into Palestine in place of the indigenous population that was here, and to disenfranchise that population of their resources and their rights in order to create a new, or in order to inherit the land, basically.
In 1948, Israel had, following the end of the British mandate and the UN Partition Act, Israel had depopulated about 700,000 Palestinians during the 1948 war and forbid them from coming back. Ever since. These are the Palestinian refugees. Many of these refugees fled to Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and some of them fled to the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. The population of the Gaza Strip today is between 70 and 80% refugees from the 1948 war and their descent.
Now, I think to say that opposing Zionism is anti-Semitism is, I mean, I’m sure there are anti-Semites who oppose Zionism, but that equation is simply saying that you cannot oppose colonialism and dispossession without being an anti-Semite. And that is simply ridiculous. Anti-Semites do not oppose colonialism. Anti-Semites are racist. And decolonialism is based on an anti-racist notion, striving for justice.
Komuna:
Maybe you can tell us a bit about how the people view the geo-politics of this.
Jonathan:
Well, yeah, there’s definitely a chance of this spilling over to a big regional and even perhaps even larger than regional war. And of course, imperial powers have a hand in that. The U.S. on one hand, Russia, Iran, and Israel in the middle of that as well. And it’s very hard to anticipate what will be the consequences of something like that.
But it will definitely, however it plays out, and that’s very hard to anticipate. However it plays out, it will not be… I can’t see a regional imperialist war being in favor of ordinary people. Well, let’s say… Okay, perhaps… We have seen a lot of exclusivity in view of the politics of the world around the world. It kind of came the politics of the world, this idea of how the West was always… So, within the so-called Israeli left, and just so you understand, when you say Israeli left, it’s very different to the left in other places in the world because it’s a very nationalistic left. The divide is basically over things that are internal to Israeli society and excluding Palestinian rights.
Before the war, there was a huge protest wave against anti-democratic measures that the government has been taking, mostly to weaken the judiciary, but none of that actually included the basic foundation of the lack of democracy in Israel, and that is colonialism and the disposition of Palestinians and Palestinian rights.
So, at the moment, that so-called Israeli left is felt extremely betrayed by the international left.
And one of the most common opinion pieces you can see in a newspaper like Haaretz, which is the liberal Zionist mouthpiece, is of how the left betrayed Israel after the 7th of October.
But if you ask me, I think it is crucially important to criticize Israel and to see the situation within the context of not only colonialism, but also of the struggle to decolonialize. And we need to develop discourse of not only the most important thing right now, the most pressing matter, the most urgent thing at the moment right now is to stop the war, is to stop Israel from bombing. But that does not mean, that does not absolve us of the responsibility to also think of the future and to figure out ways after the war to continue the pressure on Israel towards decolonialization, towards a reality in which Palestinians do not live under the boot of Israeli control.
Komuna:
You mentioned, except for stopping the war, that you also mentioned that the general left is nationalistic and the protests that were against the Netanyahus’ government are never actually dealing with the true reality of the Israeli state. In the beginning you also mentioned that there is no dissident voices against Israel. But we do know that there is this group that used to exist, it was called Anarchists Against the Border, and I think that you were also involved in it if I did read it correctly…
Maybe can you tell us a bit about that and maybe relate the same thing to the idea that you said that you were also imprisoned a few times and injured a few times, and how was the experience of you being in the judiciary system of Israel, unlike those what Palestinians would experience when they would go through the Israeli judiciary system?
Jonathan:
Yeah, I was one of the co-founders of Anarchists Against the Wall, and I think it did exist. And there is some resistance to Israeli policy by people who come from the Jewish society, but it is important to understand that it is abysmal. Even to talk about it is a bit of a misrepresentation of reality because it is so small and insignificant. I believe that the only avenue for people coming from the center of society, from Israeli society, to resist Israeli colonialism is through joining Palestinian resistance as a minority.
So as part of the effort to simply overthrow Israeli colonialism, but also in an effort to reverse the inherent power balance between Israelis and Palestinians, by joining the Palestinian movement as a minority, it is a step towards reversing that power balance and trying to create a future society, or a future at all, of justice instead of disposition.
As for the justice system, a good example of Israeli apartheid and inequality is actually the criminal justice system in Israel. In Israel, we have something that didn’t exist even in South Africa.
In South Africa, when white people joined the ANC, they would be tried under the same lawsand under the same courts that their black comrades would be tried under.
However, Israel has two separate systems of law. So if I’m arrested in the West Bank together with a Palestinian comrade, same demonstration, arrested under the same circus passes or the same thing at the same time together. My Palestinian comrade will be tried through the military justice system, through the military court system, under military law. That means much more draconian law. That means that they can be held for eight days before they see a judge. And that judge will be a soldier in uniform, tried under military law.
While at the same time, I would be tried under Israeli penal law, meaning that I would have to see a judge within 24 hours, my judge would be a civilian, the laws would be a lot less draconian, et cetera, et cetera.
So completely, like two completely separate systems of law based only on ethnicity. So my experience to your question, my experience of the Israeli legal system is that of trying to use legal persecution whenever I’m tried, trying to use that to try and expose that reality.
And in my last case that just ended now, I was just released after a year in house arrest. What I did was I was arrested on suspicion of throwing stones at the demonstration in the West Bank in a village called [not understandable]. And what I did was to say, don’t try me in an Israeli court. I asked to be tried in military court the same way my Palestinian comrades are tried. And it’s something that they can do under Israeli law. It’s a matter of policy that they don’t do it. And when they refused to try me in military court, I announced that I will refuse to cooperate with the proceeding. And that just ended now after a year of the proceeding.
Komuna:
So the verdict is you are free now?
Jonathan:
I am as free as one can be under the circumstances, yes.
Komuna:
I was just going to ask you about this. And maybe perhaps just out of curiosity, we know that there are draconian laws that were passed by the Israeli government that you cannot speak against the war, especially if you’re a Palestinian. As you mentioned, if they spread the word, they would be seen as supporting terrorist propaganda. The fact that you are talking about this now with us, is there any risk to you if this would be leaked out to the Israeli government? Or is there anything else that could possibly happen to you, or you by being, as they would see you as a Jewish, not tried in a military court, but in a penal court? So is there any risk for you, basically, if you’re talking here about this with your stances publicly?
Jonathan:
So just to make a small correction, they didn’t actually change any law. In this regard, their whole enforcement system just changed the way they enforced the existing law. So things that before would have been completely not within the realm of criminal procedures is now considered dangerous and outside the law. But the law subject didn’t change.
Like I said, there is extreme privilege in being considered Jewish by the system. That does not mean that there isn’t persecution at all, but it does mean that I’m a lot freer to speak than my Palestinian comrades are.
It doesn’t mean that there isn’t any risk at all. And there is risk of arrest, but I think under the circumstances, that doesn’t even matter. The situation is so bad. And like I said, when we open, there’s a genocide going on. And I think that the least that I can do, the least that any of us can do, is to speak out. And no matter the consequences, what is happening is so bad that any consequences, they simply fade away in comparison.
Komuna:
And perhaps the two last questions before we open up the floor also for people here and also online…
What do you see coming out of this? What do you foresee actually coming in the next few months, in the next year? And how can we, other anarchist groups from around the world, join in this struggle? What can we do actually to help? Considering that Kosovo is quite a small country,
doesn’t have much impact on geopolitics, but we were one of the three countries that actually opened the embassy in Jerusalem, for example. So this is one of the points of pressure [to pressure the government to withdraw its embassy], but still, it’s more of a symbolic act than actually concrete things.
So maybe two questions. So how do you see this playing out in the short-term and long-term? And what would you like to see more happening in the world in terms of solidarity with the Palestinians from it?
Jonathan:
So it’s hard to say how it will play out. I think that it definitely will change everything. I mean, the death and destruction that is ongoing in Gaza is so extreme, so unprecedented in our history, whichhas a fair share of death and destruction, that it is very, very hard to foresee what the future will be like, how these injuries to the very fabric of society can be mended.
And like I said before, I think that the only path towards any vision of a future is through resistance, is through people fighting for justice together.
And I think that’s one of the things that we need to do in terms of solidarity with the Palestiniansfrom it. It’s a question that still needs to be answered whether this is still going to be possible after the war and how.
And this is not something I have answers for at the moment. How our struggle will look like coming from under the rubble of destruction, of the current destruction that Israel, that is the Israeli war, both in Gaza and in the West Bank. But whatever it will be, it will have to be a future of struggle, a future of struggle and, unfortunately, of sacrifice.
Regarding what can be done, like you said, in Kosovo specifically, I think that Israeli society is going to be very susceptible to pressure after the war. And every symbolic thing is going to be of importance. If Kosovo, if the government of Kosovo can be pressured into moving its embassy away from Jerusalem, cutting diplomatic ties even better, every single act, however symbolic, that can be taken against Israel and against Israeli interest is of great importance. Now, you obviously know your country’s politics better than I do. So you’re much better positioned to say what can be done within your countries and within your political context than I am.
But like I said, any step that can be, pressure on the street is important. Seeing people demonstrate taking to the streets against Israel gives us courage, gives us hope. It’s immensely important. Pressuring your government into actually doing concrete, like taking concrete steps on the ground is incredibly important.
Question from the audience:
I just want to know how is life now in Jaffa, the city where you live? Because you said it’s was whole Palestinian, while now Israelis living there. So I think it must be tense. Or maybe just they don’t mix up. I mean, they live in separate sides of the city. How is life now?
Jonathan:
Mixed. There are neighborhoods which are more Palestinians and neighborhoods that are less Palestinian. But it is mixed. And it is tense. But like I mentioned, there is a very intense repression of Palestinian society. So that means that Palestinians are very intimidated away from politics.
One of the things about Jaffa specifically is that a very large portion of the Palestinian community in Jaffa had family in Gaza. Like through marriage or through family that ran away in 48 ended up in Gaza. And this is something that people literally cannot speak about. Like Palestinians in Jaffa live within Israeli society. And they are bound by the political discourse that surrounds them. The Israeli political discourse, which I described is extremely genocidal and hostile to Palestinians. So I’m not a mental health expert or professional, but I would say that this is a very traumatic experience, in which you cannot openly live your pain.
You talk to family members in Gaza, to friends in Gaza, and they all say, they describe death. They describe hunger. They describe thirst. They describe immense fears. And it’s something that cannot really be part of your externalized experience of living.
I hope that answers your question.
Question from the audience:
So in internet there are circulating a lot of horrific images of destruction of dead people, mutilated children, and everything. So do those images or these materials circulate in Israel or so? I mean, do the people living there see them? And if they do, what are the mental gymnastics that they do in their health probably to justify that?
Jonathan:
The mental gymnastics are very simple. And it has two main layers.
One is ignorance. These images are not being shown in Israeli media. If your worldview was built on what is shown in the Israeli media, and the vast majority of Israeli society perceives reality through that, then you have no idea of what is happening in Gaza. You do not see these images that you’re talking about. You do not see the destruction. You do not see the death. And you do not know about it or hear about it.
The second part of it, the second layer, is that Israeli view Palestinians as subhuman. Their lives are worth much less, if at all.And the majority of them, the majority of Israeli society views Palestinians as preserving dead.
Questions from the audience:
A large part of the secular violence against the Muslim population is also carried out by the civilian population, by the settler themselves as an organized militia. So, there, in Jaffa, has there been much outside violent rhetoric, or threatening behavior, on the Muslim population there?
Jonathan:
Yeah, so the settler militias that you’re referring to are more in the West Bank. Java is by the sea. So it’s less of an issue in Java, though the government has been arming the Jewish population with guns to a very frightening degree. We’re talking about thousands and thousands of guns that have been distributed, mostly to right-wing groups. There are some solidarity initiatives, but like you said, they’re very small.
I’d like to get back to the settler militias that you mentioned, because if in the Gaza Strip we’re talking about the state acting through its army in an organized manner, then the West Bank violence is more layered. And before the war, we used to say that the settlers act under the military’s protection, and that they have mutual goals and mutual strategies, and that they work together. Today, the situation is even more extreme. Right after the war began, at the very beginning of the war, very prominent settlers published their plan for ethnically cleansing the West Bank. And it’s a very detailed plan that was published openly in Hebrew over online. And they’re simply executing it. Settlers, the majority of Israeli soldiers in the West Bank right now are reserved from the settlements in the area. So if we used to say that the settlers are under the protection of the army, nowadays the settlers are the army. And they’re no longer militias, because they are the army. They’re not paramilitaries. They are the military. And if I’m not mistaken, something like 15 communities have been depopulated in the West Bank since the war, and more are threatened, as we speak.
Komuna:
Is there a risk, actually, of this escalating also to West Bank? Because I think it’s Gaza was much more intensely oppressed by being an open-air prison. And they just moved on to ethnically cleanse the area. But the settler colonialism was constantly happening in West Bank. So is there any indication that this could spill out all of the war in West Bank? Or are they just going to continue with this low-intensity war that was happening for a long time?
Jonathan:
Like I said, the settlers published a very detailed plan of what they want to do. And they’re acting on it. So it’s not the risk of something happening. It’s just a question of what would the opportunity allow them to achieve? To what degree they’re able to carry out their plan? And yes, definitely, there is risk of intensified violence also in the West Bank. I mean, there is intensified violence also in the West Bank. There are people dying, military incursions, like I said, thousands and thousands of arrests. Many of my good friends have been thrown in prison over the last few months. And yes, the risk of this growing even worse is definitely there. And it’s definitely something to be aware of at every moment.
Komuna:
Maybe also to give you the context of how actually people feel about this here in Kosovo.
We have lived through war in 99’. We all have experienced being uprooted from our homes, forced from our homes and experiencing ethnic cleansing.
At the same time, Kosovo in context of geopolitics, is constantly trying to find recognition for its statehood. During Trump administration, there was kind of a deal between US administration, Serbia, and Kosovo to open an embassy in Jerusalem, which Kosovo had done with the reasoning that the Israeli government will recognize Kosovo independence, which it actually did.
Then when this Palestinian war in Gaza happened, and the government of Kosovo just stated that they are against the atrocities perpetrated by Hamas. And that’s where they stopped. And it’s kind of ironic because the party in the government, the ruling party, is called Vetevendosje, which in translation means self-determination. So their whole political ideology was based on the idea of self-determinaiton against the colonialism of Serbia. And they even were having these political schools within the party that would be reading Fanon, and they would be watching the movies about Irish independence, which then became quite a cynical thing that they never mentioned anything against the Israeli atrocities that are happening in Gaza.
At the same time, the population is divided among three major lines. One, they are pro-Israeli in the sense of they recognize Kosovo independence, whereas the Palestinian authorities never did, and they kind of supported Milošević during the 90s.
There is another group of people, mostly Islamists, who support the Palestinian cause, due to being muslims, and because Kosovo is 95% Muslim, this tiny group has a lot of following.
And there are others of us who are against genocide in any form. And we try to make it as a more political stance, especially us as anarchists who want to say that the two-state solution is no solution for us. No state is a solution if you look at it in detail. But still, we are a tiny minority. There were a few actions, big solidarity actions that were done, by us and some other groups.
But in general, the society doesn’t budge from those stances, and the government just now ignores the whole issue as a whole. As for the media, it gives a lot of space to the news that not necessarily glorify Israel, because now it’s quite hard to do so, but at least to omit a lot of crimes that are being done by the Israeli government, whereas solidarity actions with Palestinian cause are not actually published, unless they are actually quite huge. Otherwise, they are just ignored by all the media and nothing happens.
So in this context, it’s like where we want to at least pressure the government for…although we know that they won’t retreat the embassy, but at least call them out of their hypocrisy of being the one for the self-determination while they do not recognize the self-determination of the societies that they actually are experiencing colonialism and experiencing genocide at the same time. Maybe I just wanted to give you this context there.
And maybe for the end, if you have anything to ask or add, the floor is all yours now.
I knew that the basics of Kosovo recognize and move the embassy to Jerusalem and that Israel recognized Kosovo. But I wasn’t very well aware of the details. So that was interesting.
Yeah, I mean, it would be interesting for me to hear what you guys think that can be done in in the Balkans and generally in Europe in solidarity and how can we support that from here.
At least for our perspective, the only thing that we can actually do is just pressure the government to remove the embassy. And that’s the only thing actually that we can do, which is symbolic.
At the same time, there is Israeli Kosovo Chamber of Commerce, and there is also another Israeli corporation, which is kind of this investment whose owner is a member of the World Zionist Forum. I don’t know what he’s called. this World Zionist Assembly.
So we were also, we had a few actions that actually targeted this few things, a few organizations. And we called for a boycott of all the local companies who are members of these both forums, basically.
So in our context, this is what we can do from Kosovo.
But in the wider European context, I think there is a lot of good movements, here is a lot of good actions from the unions, specifically, that stop the sending of the weapons to Israel. And I think there’s a big pressure on the governments in general, knowing that they may lose a lot of votes because of their support to the Israeli side. But I think unless there is pressure from within the centers of capital, considering the fact that their actions have a bigger weight due to their bilateral relations, economic bilateral relations with Israel. And they would have to be quite specific type of actions.
Other than that, I think the only thing we can do is talks like this, like spreading awareness and letting people know what is going on. Because in the end of the day, even if you have a whole group of people uprooted and murdered, at least you can carry on their flag.
Jonathan:
Absolutely. And yeah, if there are things that we can do to support your efforts from here, that would be very helpful for us to know.
Komuna:
With this, I think that we have no questions here or online. Jonathan, if you want to wrap up something, but for our side, this is it.
Jonathan:
Thank you for having me and for coming. And it was interesting.
Komuna:
Thank you, and stay safe.